The 1st email is my initial email to them, the 2nd email is their response, the 3rd email is my point-by-point response back. I hope you find this interesting and enlightening.
1st email: My initial email
Hi “blank”,
I’m grieved over the fact that Bible believing Christians
have been explaining away the Truth of God’s word in order to make the Bible
fit in with the science of the day. I’m hoping to strengthen their faith
with some of the information I’ve enclosed.
I see from some of your articles, you believe the sun does
not actually rise and set but just appears to because of the rotation of the
earth. I realize how entrenched this mind set is. Even most
young-earth 6-day creationists don’t realize that they’ve capitulated to
science.
Did you know, that the fact of the matter is, science has
NEVER proven that the earth rotates and orbits the sun.
“Although it is not uncommon for people to say that
Copernicus proved Ptolemy wrong, that is not true.” “…for our
observations of the heavens can be explained by assuming either the earth or
the sun to be at rest.” Stephen
Hawking
“Reliance on the doctrine of Copernicus is not nearly as
strong as we were once led to believe.” “…the sun is at rest and the
Earth moves, or, the sun moves and the Earth is at rest, would simply mean two
different…coordinate systems.” Albert
Einstein
A circuit is a loop of electricity. The bible says the
sun has a circuit; Psalm 19:6. And “The sun goeth down and hasteth to his
place where he arose” Eccllesiastes 1:5. The heavens are also described
in terms of a circuit. The earth is NEVER referred to as having a
circuit.
67 scriptures tell us that the sun moves not the
earth. “and hangeth the earth upon nothing” Job 26:7. “The world
also is Stablished that it cannot be moved.” Psalm 93:1.
You mentioned that the scoffers and mockers have accused the
Bible of being scientifically false because of its references to “sunrise
sunset or Joshua’s’ long day or the sundial of Ahaz. Let them Mock “blank”!
A paradigm shift is coming. “BigBang” cosmology is in deep trouble!
I have only recently become aware of the battle that has
been forgotten for 400 years, but has been revived thanks to the internet and
YouTube. The universities and the media have controlled the information
regarding this issue for so long and have kept it out of the public's’ reach
for so long that most of us just accepted the Copernican Principle as truth;
when in fact, it has NEVER been proven.
I’ve just recently been turned on to some very interesting
revelations from cosmology regarding whether the earth is in a special place in
the universe. A couple of Catholic gentlemen have made a film called: The
Principle; due for release in spring 2014. You can find interviews and
clips on-line. In it, they interview the biggest cosmologists in the
world. Bible believing Christians need to get up to speed on this issue
as well.
In 1991, NASA put up a satellite named COBE, to measure the
Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation CMBR. The CMBR is supposedly the
left over radiation from the “Big Bang”. They expected “Big-Bang”
assumptions to prevail; an isotropic, homogeneous distribution of matter and
temperature. What they found was the opposite.
At the largest scale structures of the universe, they found
alignments from the edge of the universe to our Earth; specifically, our
ecliptic and equinoxes. Seems our 23.5 degree “tilt”, spans the entire
universe. Like the spokes on a bicycle pointing to its’ axis. It’s
called the Dipole. The scientists who discovered it dubbed it: “The Axis
of Evil”. Seems they don’t like the implications of an Earth centered
Universe.
But don’t expect mainstream cosmology to just up and abandon
the Big Bang just yet. You WON’T hear them say that these anomalies in
the CMB data are because “God did it”.
They too, just like evolutionary biologists, have an
a-priori adherence to naturalistic processes. They too “will not allow a
divine foot in the door”.
“blank”, I have a paper that I’ve written about how “space
elevator” concepts are at odds with geostationary satellite launch data.
Click Here! Quite possibly proving that the earth is not rotating; and if the earth is not
rotating, it’s not orbiting either. Very interesting!
Until Copernicus, the Bible was the authority on ALL
matters. The Copernican revolution gave science preeminence, reducing
Biblical authority to matters of salvation alone. But if you can no
longer believe in the rising of the Sun, will we also doubt the rising of the
Son?
“The fool on the hill sees the sun going down and the eyes
in his head see the world spinning round” Lennon & McCartney
Thank you for all that you do and your attention to this
matter.
Michael Reynolds
2nd email: Their response
Michael Reynolds
2nd email: Their response
Hello
Michael, thank you for contacting “blank”.
We are not a pro-geocentric ministry and neither is “blank” personally. “blank” also wrote a review of
the geocentric book The Earth is not Moving by Marshall Hall which you
may want to see (bottom link below). “blank” like “blank” before him here at “blank” are firm
heliocentrists.
There
is no Scripture passage that definitively teaches heliocentrism, (or geocentrism
for that matter). We do not find an explicit statement in the Bible such as
“the earth does not move and the sun and stars go around the earth,” which
could easily have been said in just such simple language. So we are left to use
our God-given intellect and try to understand God’s creation, when He does not
explicitly reveal details. Most scientists, creation and secular, have adopted
heliocentrism based on observational science. We do know that the earth is
moving around the Sun due to experiments involving such things as Foucault's
pendulum. As to the relative motion of the earth and other bodies in space,
perhaps there will be an opportunity to explore the physics and astronomy of
that in greater depth on the website in the future.
Geocentricism
supporters often use a hyper-literal reading of Joshua 10:12–13
to buttress their position. However, it is quite obvious that Joshua was simply
using observational language. The same thing is commonly employed by trained
meteorologists today when they speak of the sun “rising” and “setting.” Surely,
no one would accuse these men of believing that the earth is stationary and the
sun revolves around it!
Poetic
verses such as Psalm 96:10 also do not support a geocentric view. This verse
says that the world “shall not be moved.” However, the Hebrew word for “moved”
(מוט, môt) does not necessarily imply motion in an absolute sense, but rather “to
slip,” or to be “out of course.” In fact, David also says in Psalm 62:6, “I
shall not be moved” using the same Hebrew word. Is David indicating that he
will never physically move? Clearly not. He is indicating that he will not
deviate from the path the Lord laid out for him. Likewise, the earth will not
deviate from its path. Clearly, the Bible does not teach geocentricism, and
neither do we. But the Bible does teach a young earth.
“blank” Is a non-profit, Christ-centered, non-denominational
ministry dedicated to upholding the authority
of Scripture from the very first verse! (emphasis added)
Michael Reynolds: Please read my follow up email where I
address the assertions made in this email.
3rd email: My point-by-point response
Thank you, “Creationist Ministry” for taking the time to
respond to my email.
I read through the 3 links you gave me. Thank you for
those. I would like to correct something though. Geocentrism is of the
Tachonic (Tycho Brahe) model: the planets revolve around the sun, and the sun
revolves around the earth; not the Ptolemaic (Ptolemy) model where the sun and
each planet have their own earth orbits. The Tachonic model is
indistinguishable from the heliocentric model regarding all of the celestial
movements; the difference is that the earth occupies the center of mass instead
of the sun.
Below, I have enclosed a point-by-point response to your
email. Please feel free to share, or use any or all, of our email
discussion in a public forum and I hope you feel the same. After you read
my email response to you and view the YouTube videos and read the links below,
I believe that you will have your eyes opened. PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE,
pass all of this on to “blank” and “blank”.
Please watch these two YouTube videos! Please refer
these videos to “blank” “blank” and “blank”! This is breaking,
cosmological, news.
To watch a YouTube video interview with the producer of “The
Principle” Robert Sungenis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=554TOFX3FW8
Here’s another YouTube video interview with Robert Sungenis
and Rick Delano (Producer/writer) of The Principle with a few clips from
the film. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIqsVMQGoK0
To see some animations on how the Tachonic model works
please see: http://galileowaswrong.com/
Here’s a paper Robert Sungenis wrote interpreting the Planck
probe findings as presented by the European Space Agency (ESA). Remember,
just like evolutionists, they are not ever going to admit that “God did it”,
however, they do try to cover up the evidence, which is very revealing in its
own right. http://galileowaswrong.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Planck-Date-Release.pdf
Before my point-by-point response of your email, I’d like to
share with you a quote from Lawrence Krauss: theoretical physicist and
cosmologist and professor at the University of Arizona, who wrote a best seller
called: “A Universe From Nothing”. This is what he concluded from
the WMAP findings of the Cosmic Microwave Background (CMB):
“But when you look at CMB map, you
also see that the structure that is observed, is in fact, in a weird way,
correlated with the plane of the earth around the sun. Is this Copernicus
coming back to haunt us? That's crazy. We're looking out at the whole
universe. There's no way there should be a correlation of structure with
our motion of the earth around the sun — the plane of the earth around the sun
— the ecliptic. That would say we are truly the center of the universe.”
Here is my point-by-point response to your response to my
original email. Remember, Satan invented heliocentrism first and
then evolution for the purposes of discrediting, God’s Word. The
heliocentrists and evolutionists are one-in-the-same, they are the same
people! PLEASE DON’T FALL FOR THE DECEPTION!
1.
“Creationist Ministry”: “blank” and “blank” are firm
heliocentrists.
Michael Reynolds: Firm heliocentrists ??? Aren’t we supposed to
be Biblically firm? To hold to something above scripture, borders on
idolatry, don’t you think?
I’m not a firm geocentrist, I
just believe what the Bible says regarding the earth and the heavens.
It’s true that an evolutionist and a
creationist bring their world views with them to a debate, however, the
difference is that the evolutionists has an adherence to naturalistic causality
while the creationist is supposed to have his allegiance to the truth;
and the truth as revealed in Gods’ Word.
Having an adherence to heliocentrism
is to align with the evolutionists on a philosophical and arbitrary (IT’S NEVER
BEEN PROVEN THAT THE EARTH MOVES THROUGH SPACE) shift from Biblical-authority
to the current (embarrass the Bible, science-of-the-day authority) that
Copernicus, Galileo, and Kepler bestowed to the world.
2.
”Creationist Ministry”:
The Bible does not definitively teach geocentrism.
Michael Reynolds: For you to say that, you have to explain away
67 scripture references that say it is the Sun that moves and not the
earth. Here are some scriptures that tell us the earth is not moving and
the sun, moon and stars are moving.
Psalm 93:1… “The world also is
stablished, that it cannot be moved.
Psalm 96:10 “the world also shall be
established that it shall not be moved”
I Chronicles 16:30… the world also
shall be stable, that it be not moved
Job 26:7… He hangeth the
earth upon nothing
Genesis 1:13-19: The earth is
created on day 1. The earth had no sun to orbit until day 4. I guess
on day four God must have given the earth a spin and hurled it on its way
around the sun. But that’s not what the Bible teaches, It says: God laid
a foundation for the earth but made circuits (orbits) for the sun and the
heavens.
God sits on the circle of the earth
but rides on the heavens.
God SITS ON THE CIRCLE OF THE EARTH
BUT RIDES ON THE HEAVENS!!!
Psalm 68:4, “extol him that rideth
upon the heavens…”, Psalm 68:33, “To Him that rideth upon the heavens of
heavens…”. THE EARTH IS STILL; THE HEAVENS MOVE!!! I am saddened
that you can’t see this; PLEASE Believe Gods’ Word First!
Job 9:7 “…commanded the sun, and it
riseth not…” COMMANDED THE SUN not to move. He could have
said: earth, stop turning, but He didn’t, He commanded the sun.
Psalm 19:4-6 “…set a tabernacle for
the sun, which is as a bridegroom coming out of his chamber, and rejoiceth as a
strong man to RUN a race….” AGAIN… A MOVING SUN!
Ecclesiastes 1:5 “The sun also
ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hastens to his place where he arose.”
Joshua 10:12-13 God stopped the sun
and the moon. There’s no argument that the moon moves so it’s pretty
clear if God says he stopped both of them then both of them are moving!
Again, YOU CAN’T STOP WHAT ISN’T MOVING! Besides, to stop the earths’
rotation would be cataclysmic.
2nd Kings 20:9-11, and
Isaiah 38: 7-8: regarding the sun dial of Ahaz: God moves the sun
backwards. That would require stopping the earth and REVERSING the
rotation then stopping again then continue forward on its regular rotation.
Are you getting dizzy yet?
3.
“Creationist Ministry”: “…Use our God-given intellect and try to understand
God’s creation…”
Michael Reynolds: I have two scriptures to quote here: “Trust in the
Lord with all thine heart, LEAN NOT UNTO YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING…,” And “there
is a way that seems right unto a man…”
In other words follow what the
scripture says: the earth is fixed and the heavens rotate around us and when
God says that He stopped the sun, He stopped the sun! The sun had to have
been moving! Believe it!
The Copernican revolution is the
same as Darwinian evolution. There were both invented to discredit the
Bible and lead us astray.
4.
“Creationist Ministry”: “Most scientists, creation and secular, have adopted
heliocentrism…”
Michael Reynolds: “The way is narrow that leads to life and few find
it” “broad is the way that leads to destruction.”
It is a very poor argument and
untrue to say that because most people believe something, that it must be true.
5.
“Creationist Ministry”: “We do know that the earth is moving around the sun
due to experiments involving such things as Foucault’s pendulum.”
Michael Reynolds: This statement is completely incorrect. There
are no experiments or observations to date that have proved the earth is moving
through space.
Actually, the contrary is true,
experiments such as Michelson Morley have shown no motion of the earth through
space and others such as Michelson Gail, Sagnac, etc…
The scientific community was so
stunned by the results of the Michelson Morley experiment, showing NO movement
of the earth through the aether, that they were quite for 20 years until their
savior Albert Einstein came along and invented special relativity to explain
away the results.
By the way, Foucault’s pendulum has
nothing to do with the earth revolving around the sun but has to do with the
earths’ diurnal rotation on its axis. The Foucault’s pendulum as well as
earths’ equatorial bulge can be explained, just as easily, by the rotation of
the universe around a stationary earth. Seems that the Coriolis effect is
built into the entire universe; this is according to findings in the Cosmic
Microwave Background Radiation results 2013 Planck probe. Believe Gods
Word!
6.
“Creationist Ministry”: “Geocentrism supporters often use a hyper-literal
reading of Joshua 10:12-13…”
Michael Reynolds: If by that you mean to imply that because I believe
the Bible when it says, SIXTY-SEVEN times, that it is the sun that moves and
not the earth; or when the Bible says that God COMMANDED THE SUN not to
rise: Job 9:7; or when IT says the sun has a “circuit”, or, God rides in the
circuit of heaven, or the fact that the earth is NEVER referred to as having a
circuit or maybe it’s because I believe that God stopped the sun and moon and
even moved the sun backwards, if that’s what you mean then yes I am a
“hyper-literal” believer of God’s word!
The “obvious” conclusion is: God
says He stopped the Sun! I’m going with what God says regardless of what
man says. And if you need science to validate the Bible, please refer to
my original email about the CMB and how it points to an earth centered universe
and please watch the Robert Sungenis interviews on YouTube.
7.
“Creationist Ministry”: “…Joshua was simply using observational language.
Michael Reynolds: Joshua was obviously a Bible believing geocentric
creationist!
We, like Joshua, observe the sun to
be moving! One of our problems with macro evolution, (change from one kind of
animal into another), is, that we don’t observe that in nature.
You guys, (like evolutionists), are
also referring to the (unobservable and unproven), as science; and are
including it under the category of creation “science”. Believing that the
earth rotates on its axis and orbits the sun is philosophy, not science.
You might fire back with: the reason
we observe the sun to be moving is because the earth is rotating. THAT
HAS NEVER BEEN PROVEN! (see my first email). Why compromise the
word of God that NEVER CHANGES and that has NEVER BEEN PROVEN WRONG, with
ever-changing, often wrong “science”. These are the same folks pushing
evolution and they are intent on crippling Gods word, and, have admitted as
much. I have to conclude, that in this case, you guys are putting science
above scripture. Please don’t do that.
For your sake as well as for
everybody who will hear creationists explain away so many Bible passages and
who may conclude, deep down, that you can’t really trust the Bible.
Evolution and Heliocentrism are the same lie. Don’t fall for it.
8.
“Creationist Ministry”: “…trained meteorologists today… speak of the sun
“rising” and “setting.” Surely, no one would accuse these men of believing that
the earth is stationary and the sun revolves around it!”
Michael Reynolds: That’s for sure!... Sounds like you guys have been
“trained” by the “science” establishment as well. But that’s ok, I aim to
set you guys straight.
To compare “trained” meteorologists’
references, to the rising and setting of the sun, to the Creator of the
Universes references, telling us the Sun rises and sets and hastens to the
place that it arose, is ludicrous.
Please think long on this FACT; God
STOPPED THE SUN AND MOON in Joshua, (even evolutionists agree that the moon
moves… think about it… God stopped the moon also, clearly they are BOTH
MOVING!
9.
“Creationist Ministry”: “Poetic verses such as Psalm 96:10 also do not
support a geocentric view.”
Michael Reynolds: I detect, by your use of the word “Poetic”, an
attempt to discredit the Psalms as a viable conveyor of Biblical Truth because
these verses: Psalm 96:10 “…the world also shall be established that it shall
not be moved…” or this verse, Psalm 93:1 “the world also is stablished, that it
cannot be moved.” does not fit with your moving earth narrative; a narrative
that is one of satans’ great deceptions.
From these “poetic” writings, (the
Psalms), we get our cherished portrayal of the crucifixion of the
messiah. Please, don’t be deceived!
10. “Creationist Ministry”:
“David also says in Psalm 62:6, “I shall not be moved”… indicating that he will
not deviate from the path the Lord laid out for him.
Michael Reynolds: Psalm 62:6 makes NO reference to David being on a
path but refers to him waiting on God.
Here’s how it reads, in context,
according to the King James Version.
Verse 1: “Truly my soul waiteth upon
God” followed by, verse 2: “I shall not be greatly moved.” Then, verse 5: “My
soul, wait thou only upon God” followed by verse 6: “I shall not be moved.”
11. “Creationist Ministry”:
“Likewise, the earth will not deviate from its path.”
Michael Reynolds: How you can read, “the world also shall be
established that it shall not be moved” to mean that the earth has an orbit, is
beyond my level of understanding.
Lord, please grant us the wisdom to
understand Your Word and to convey Your truths to others in Truth and
Love. Amen
Thank you for your time, please feel
free to contact me further if you have any questions or you disagree with me or
would like more resources. I welcome this conversation.
Michael (The Foolish) Reynolds
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